So a majority of W.C. farmers support the board.Are you saying they are all indoctrinated like a Marxist as well?
You really need to quit standing on your brain and answer the tough questions you are being asked.. This all goes back tothe earliest post i made on this subject relating to the childrens book "THE EMPERORS NEW CLOTHES" ... You cannot show me or the majority of "Farmers" a sows ear and keep repeatedly telling them it is a silk purse. I would like to know the following from you Reginbaldholt and any other board supporters..
Joined: Oct 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,357 Location: NuttyTown, MB, Canada
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #152 on Nov 7, 2009, 12:18am »
Andy,
The CWB offers admin services for producer cars - that's it.
Truth of the matter is, ANY person can commission CN to move freight. Grain is freight. Woodchips is freight. So are car parts, bulk goods, lumber, etc. As long as there is a public siding, they will drop off a railcar, or two, or fifty.
Don't believe me? Here you go: https://ecprod.cn.ca/velocity/POWCarloadFrontend/public/english/GetCarloadPrice#
You can price it out, order a car to a rail siding, etc.
All online, all from home. No $100+ admin fee needed, either.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #153 on Nov 8, 2009, 3:20pm »
Just a thought... I can drive south to an elevator and I have many times and see that we sell our canola, soybeans, corn, oats, etc. for almost the same price as they are getting in the US. Sometimes we can get more sometimes we get less. But wheat we are getting screwed hard by the cwb every time. Last year our farm and everybody elses for that matter could have made a lot more money selling into the u.s. A lot of u.s elevators were paying a positive 25 cent bushel premium over the futures and we certainly didn't see that. I believe we would have gotten that premium here if not for the cwb. Imagine a country so corrupt that I can plant a seed, grow a crop with intensive management, harvest it, and not have the right to sell it to who ever I want. Welcome to canada. I alomost forgot to mention that in Ontario they have that right. Since free market has been allowed in Ontario wheat acres have increased massivly. Anything run by our government is a joke. Money is vastly wasted, ineficiency is pathetic. How can anyone argue against that. If you do you obviously haven't had health problems or know anybody that does. Have you seen city workers actually working? The cwb is the same way. Thousands of employees doing the same thing that 6 employees at cargill do on a larger scale but it's ok becease atleast we have the wheat board to "protect us"!! From what higher prices and better profits. They should quit selling wheat and go into marketing because they have sure pulled the wool over a lot of peoples eyes. We need the wheat board, LOL. I'm so scared what if it goes and I have to sell my own wheat! Whooo!!!! scary!!!
1.CWB extracts premiums because of its single desk amoung other reasons that I've posted before.
I pretty clearly demonstrated that the single desk doesn't do squat for you. If the CWB is MANDATED to get the average price for every bushel of wheat, how are they extracting a premium? (That average is an average from the entire marketing year.) Who are they getting it from? The Canadian millers? I don't think so. If our wheat is too expensive they buy American wheat. Pretty simple economics.
As was also pointed out, our wheat acres have increased tremendously since we have gone to a dual-marketing system. Why? Because now, with the ability to market your own grain, it is possible to grow wheat profitably. It now competes with corn and beans for acres.
Prove to me how you are getting a premium for your wheat.
1.CWB extracts premiums because of its single desk amoung other reasons that I've posted before.
I pretty clearly demonstrated that the single desk doesn't do squat for you. If the CWB is MANDATED to get the average price for every bushel of wheat, how are they extracting a premium? (That average is an average from the entire marketing year.) Who are they getting it from? The Canadian millers? I don't think so. If our wheat is too expensive they buy American wheat. Pretty simple economics.
As was also pointed out, our wheat acres have increased tremendously since we have gone to a dual-marketing system. Why? Because now, with the ability to market your own grain, it is possible to grow wheat profitably. It now competes with corn and beans for acres.
Prove to me how you are getting a premium for your wheat.
Yes someone please tell the free market guy from Ontario how you are receiving a premium for your wheat. He is quite offended that a bunch of overpaid desk jockeys who know nothing about "your" business, are making you more money than he is able to extract from the open market.
Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 273 Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #157 on Nov 9, 2009, 12:54pm »
Since I have taken over our operation, we haven't pooled our wheat, no. It is all marketed like the rest of our crops. I think Dad took advantage of the cash market the first year it was an option for us. I forward contract quite a bit of our production, then market the rest after it is off the field.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #158 on Nov 11, 2009, 6:53pm »
The CWB sells more fear to canadian farmers than wheat to other countries. They have farmers scared silly so they can have a coushy office job for thousands of people and that's about it. I can't even talt about this anymore! I wish I farmed in Ontario where growing wheat is now profitable.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #159 on Nov 13, 2009, 9:05pm »
mbfarmer Now i have to correct you.
You say the CWB is gov. run. I would agree that most gov. run institutions appear to be for the most part quite inefficient and wasteful. However the CWB is NOT gov. run. Its a farmer owned and controlled marketing agency, goverened by a board of 15 directors, 10 of which are elected by producers. The only financial involvement the gov. has is to: 1. guarantee initial pmts 2.guarantee borrowings 3.guarantee credit sales The gov. has nothing to do with the day to day running of the board.
This goes to your concern that the board has no incentive. the directors have access to the books and they can see whats happening and they have to answer to us-the producers. If you have a legit concern you can take it to them, who then take it to the ceo and on down the line. If their not doing their job, than someone should be out of a job.I don't see how their incentive is different than any other company. Private companies answer to their shareholders-the board answers to us.I prefer the latter. I'm concerned that its becoming quite evident that you guys have so many false preconceptions of the board and how it works. ie- "cwb is gov. run, you have to sell thru the board for domestic us (ethanol, feedmill,etc.), "cwb buys my wheat because they pay me for it", "elevator companies like the cwb". You guys are always trying to imply that your young and cutting edge.........more like young and naive.
You say the CWB is gov. run. I would agree that most gov. run institutions appear to be for the most part quite inefficient and wasteful. However the CWB is NOT gov. run. Its a farmer owned and controlled marketing agency, goverened by a board of 15 directors, 10 of which are elected by producers. The only financial involvement the gov. has is to: 1. guarantee initial pmts 2.guarantee borrowings 3.guarantee credit sales The gov. has nothing to do with the day to day running of the board.
This goes to your concern that the board has no incentive. the directors have access to the books and they can see whats happening and they have to answer to us-the producers. If you have a legit concern you can take it to them, who then take it to the ceo and on down the line. If their not doing their job, than someone should be out of a job.I don't see how their incentive is different than any other company. Private companies answer to their shareholders-the board answers to us.I prefer the latter. I'm concerned that its becoming quite evident that you guys have so many false preconceptions of the board and how it works. ie- "cwb is gov. run, you have to sell thru the board for domestic us (ethanol, feedmill,etc.), "cwb buys my wheat because they pay me for it", "elevator companies like the cwb". You guys are always trying to imply that your young and cutting edge.........more like young and naive.
Do you actually think before you spew?????? You in your own post freely admit to the governments involvement through guarantees, borrowings etc. How many other industries or businesses do you know that receive these types of guarantees?? By the way you still have not answered any of the tough questions asked of you, which leaves me to believe you may be quite naive yourself. I personally am loving the Doha rounds and their opinion of the board. Please comment Reginbaldholt as your intelligence and insightfulness on grain marketing gathers a chuckle from most.
CWB Continues to Deny the Obvious by Alan Tracy, USW President
The Canadian Wheat Board (CWB) is upset by language in the current Doha negotiating text that would outlaw export state trading monopolies like, well, the CWB. The folks at the World Trade Organization in Geneva clearly recognize that export monopolies inherently distort trade, a simple truth the CWB vehemently tries to deny. The CWB has generally lost that argument as the negotiating parties have come to understand that a monopoly's ability to fix their prices inevitably disrupts the trade that would otherwise take place. Lately the CWB has launched a lobbying campaign, asking western Canadian producers to complain about the Doha language to their government, even mailing out cards for producers to send in to Gerry Ritz, the Canadian Minister of Agriculture, demanding that Canadian farmers be allowed the "right to choose" their own marketing system.
This sudden CWB interest in a "right to choose" for Canadian producers strikes us as more than a little ironic. Western Canadian wheat and barley producers have no choice of where to sell their crops; they can deliver only to the CWB. A couple of years ago, the Canadian government polled barley growers and found that a clear majority wanted a choice. But when they tried to allow open barley marketing the CWB, itself technically a part of the Canadian government, challenged them in court to keep the monopoly and won on a procedural point. .A few years earlier, the CWB itself had polled producers and heard back that about a third wanted to keep things as is, a third wanted completely open marketing and a third wanted to be able to ship to either the CWB or to other buyers. So, even though two thirds of the producers clearly wanted a choice, the CWB disingenuously spun the results as two thirds wanting to keep the CWB.
The Doha round of WTO negotiations, if ultimately successful, will give western Canadian producers what the CWB has long denied them; the right to sell to whomever they choose. It is no accident that U.S. producers just across the border selling similar wheat earn higher returns, on average, that their Canadian brethren, due to CWB mismanagement and pricing games. The CWB is acting like the self-serving bureaucracy it is, and its newfound concern for producer choice rings hollow.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #161 on Nov 13, 2009, 9:55pm »
Trying to figure out price premiums and the difference between what we get and what U.S. producers get is not an easy apple to apple comparison. In the U.S. proteins are calculated using a wet basis whereas Canada uses a dry basis. The currency fluctuates and then there are the "hidden factors"such as grade and dockage deals, and of coarse the U.s. prices change daily whereas the cwb uses a pooled price. For comparison purposes a study was done using the feb/06 cwb pro as the measuring stick. Using prices on mar6, here is what it came up with: 1. exchange rate$1us=1.15cdn 2. protein-used american bid 14% protein DNspring which is the equivilant rsw. No. 1 rs 14.5%. Using the cwb's avg. MB ded. , a mbfarmer would recieve an avg. of 169.94/T At Bottineau elevator in ND, they were bidding 142.57us/T or 163.95/T
the single desk provides the ability to price discriminate-an indication of market power and performance in neg. with buyers. They can charge more to those able to pay more or willing to pay for more service.(O'leary would want to invest in something with clout and market power-not a bunch of individual price takers in the international market) Studies which have used actual CWB sales data Schmitz et al (1997) concluded: " This study clearly establishes that the single desk selling of bly creates more sales rev. for w.c. farmers than would be created if there were multiple sellers."Based on the work of Gray, an independent auditor said "farmers recieved $10.49 more/tonne at the farmgate and $10.13/t at port position with the cwb." If you don't believe any of this than phone up the anticwb director,rod flaman who switched to being pro cwb after he got in and saw the books and all the premiums and other benefits that the board extracted.
Cwb benefits to farmers: wht price prem. ..........................................................................................$212million bly price prem. ..........................................................................................$57.6mil interest earnings...........................................................................................68.5mil transportation-term rebates, tendering, despatch,capped rail freight .........268.5mil blending .......................................................................................................30mil Totals $11/ac on every acre in W.C.
In my next post i will debunk the myth of a dual market and explain why driving across the line to sell wht will not neccesarily be worth our time in an open market.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 118 Location: Alberta/Saskatchewan
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #162 on Nov 13, 2009, 10:00pm »
I actually didn't want to post a reply anymore to this topic....but.. Reginabaldholt not all of us are really young...at least a couple are 40+... Just one question to you. What is worse...to be young and naive as you like to interpret that or to be old and senile???
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #163 on Nov 13, 2009, 10:12pm »
JDgreen-"how many other industries or businesses do you know that recieve these types of guarantees?" Well, I know of quite a few that get a lot more than this- more like blank cheques: GM, Chysler, insurance companies, investment banks
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 322 Location: Southwest Saskatchewan
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #165 on Nov 13, 2009, 10:17pm »
I now have a new respect for you reginbaldholt as you are trying to answer some questions.. In response to your post however, you must certainly realize that this study shows nothing more than a point in time comparison at one location. The CWB DOES NOT MARKET YOUR GRAIN IN THIS FASHION. They have a so called marketing program which sells a portion of the crop at specific times throughout the crop year to multiple customers. To be honest a blind monkey throwing darts at a board could do the same. The only way your suggested model works is if it is replicated in the same fashion as the CWB'S marketing plan. However we cannot replicate it because the books have never been opened. Rod Flaman is not credible IMO and will not comment further. Oleary will tear you to shreds if he finds out you are broadcasting to the world he supports a socialist monopoly.
Joined: Oct 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,357 Location: NuttyTown, MB, Canada
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #166 on Nov 13, 2009, 10:30pm »
reginabaldholt,
I'm not young and naive. I don't know if you'd old or young. But I do know you're ignorant.
SHOW ME THE MONEY. Don't show me CWB studies.
Go to North Dakota, ask what the wheat price is. CASH NOW.
Go to your local elevator, ask what you get for your wheat. CASH NOW.
Oh wait, let's do that right now.
QMW H0 HRS wheat contract:
Specification is 13.5% protein.
$5,7140 = $5.71/bu. Basis levels = $0.20 under (average). Net USD = $5.514/bu. Converting using today's exchange rate: $5.794 / bu = $212.82/mt
CWB:
13.5% PRO =
$245.00 tonne - $53 + $10 = $202/mt or $5.50/bu.
Difference of $0.29/bu. This does NOT include the fact that the CWB makes me wait up to a year to get all of my money. I should deduct interest for a full-on comparison.
All you're spewing is CWB propaganda. Can't you think for yourself? Oh wait... Socialists don't think for themselves. Doublespeak and thoughtspeak - perhaps you should spend some time reading a great book by George Orwell called 1984.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 118 Location: Alberta/Saskatchewan
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #167 on Nov 14, 2009, 12:00am »
Christian... only people that aren't out of their mind can open it. I'm still sitting on 10,000 bushel of durum from last year ..i can leave it sit or sell it for a way lower price now and reginaboldholt is trying to show how the board is making the farmer additional money...plus i'm still waiting for a final payment if it ever arrives . I don't think the guy is a farmer....propably works for the board. He might not be old but...
Joined: Oct 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,357 Location: NuttyTown, MB, Canada
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #168 on Nov 14, 2009, 7:57am »
LOL Allcolours. So true! The story with Durum is simply disgusting. To have the carrot(last years higher prices) dangled in front of you, and now get hit with a stick, is as bad as getting hit in the balls
Still waiting on a final payment too... Got $24 and some pennies a tonne a few weeks ago.
reginabadholt:
I'm really starting to think you are working for the CWB. I'll tell you something about accountability. I gave a CWB rep a good chewing out about how they hinder my ability to run a business because they sit on my cash. If you use the option to get all of your money up front, you get even less. Do you know what he told me? He laughed and told me to suck it up. The government put the board there, and I can b***h and whine all I want, I still have to sell to them. That's being accountable?
Many years ago we where dealing with Cargil for crop inputs. There was a bit of a crooked guy working there, who charged us for 46-00-00, and gave us 32-00-00. My parents figured this out, gave him a good chewing out - then sent a letter to his superiors. One week later he was gone, we were credited the difference, and received an apology from the company.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #169 on Nov 14, 2009, 10:13pm »
Your math was wrong if your wanting to figure out cash now Dec- $5.55/bu basis levels=$.20under(avg) Net usd= $5.35/bu Proteins are calculated differently ("wet and dry") in Canada and the U.S.as I explained in my earlier post. To get the equivilant protein the U.S. spec. should be .5%lower. Approx $.23/bu $5.35/bu-$.23/bu=$5.12/bu. With the currency change it works out to $5.37/bu. You figured the CWB @ $5.50. The cwb is higher under this scenario.
I find it hard to believe that a rep would laugh in your face-but maybe you should take some of your own advise and treat them with respect and on an equal footing,just as you have preached to me when dealing with the grain companies.Then they might treat you with respect as well. As for waiting for your money. With the additional prem. and many other benefits we get for going thru the board, its certainly not a big deal for our farm. On our farm, we generally hold off selling our other crops until harvest pressure subsides, and we're quite often selling them in the spring.So with the wheat its nice to get some grain off the yard in the fall(and with this yrs. big crop-off the combine)and get some cash flow without dumping it all under harvest pressure.So for us with the wheat we actually get a lot more money a lot sooner than we do for our non-board crops. Without the board we would generally try to hold off with our deliveries and selling and than that hurts cashflow,increases the risk of storage problems and we would have weeks of more hauling when there's more important things to do in the growing season and when time is critical. The cwb works really well for us in this way.
Joined: Oct 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,357 Location: NuttyTown, MB, Canada
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #170 on Nov 14, 2009, 10:54pm »
I phoned an elevator in ND. They use the same method for protein discovery... Go phone an elevator if you don't believe me.
I use CASH NOW, 1 month off delivery... Thus I named the contract.
You need to now remove 6% of the CWB premium - that's the average interest on an operating loan, which I can't pay back, because I don't have my CASH.
I talked with the CWB rep before I had an opinion on the CWB. He was arrogant, believed that young people should NOT be farming, and found it "absurd" that one questions the CWB.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #171 on Nov 14, 2009, 11:40pm »
You say "you talked to the rep before you had an opinion on the board" -but when you you were telling your story in the previous post you said you "gave a CWB rep a good chewing out about how they hinder my ability to run a business" Which story is right?
I don't want to keep picking on you, but your credibility is going down the tubes.Your numbers were wrong and you say the rep told you that he "believed that young people should not be farming"? This is just way to far out there and unbelievable. Its obvious your making things up for your convenience as we go. NuttyTown is starting to sound appropriate.
In my next post I will debunk the myth of a dual market and explain why driving across the line to sell wht won't neccessarily be worth our time in an open market.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #172 on Nov 15, 2009, 12:01am »
BTW-I told you about the different ways that protein is calculated in the U.S. and Canada yesterday (Friday evening). And now,in the meantime today (saturday evening)you say you phoned a N.D. elevator and asked them about that?
Their elevators are open on a Saturday? Their sure not here!
Your math was wrong if your wanting to figure out cash now Dec- $5.55/bu basis levels=$.20under(avg) Net usd= $5.35/bu Proteins are calculated differently ("wet and dry") in Canada and the U.S.as I explained in my earlier post. To get the equivilant protein the U.S. spec. should be .5%lower. Approx $.23/bu $5.35/bu-$.23/bu=$5.12/bu. With the currency change it works out to $5.37/bu. You figured the CWB @ $5.50. The cwb is higher under this scenario.
I find it hard to believe that a rep would laugh in your face-but maybe you should take some of your own advise and treat them with respect and on an equal footing,just as you have preached to me when dealing with the grain companies.Then they might treat you with respect as well. As for waiting for your money. With the additional prem. and many other benefits we get for going thru the board, its certainly not a big deal for our farm. On our farm, we generally hold off selling our other crops until harvest pressure subsides, and we're quite often selling them in the spring.So with the wheat its nice to get some grain off the yard in the fall(and with this yrs. big crop-off the combine)and get some cash flow without dumping it all under harvest pressure.So for us with the wheat we actually get a lot more money a lot sooner than we do for our non-board crops. Without the board we would generally try to hold off with our deliveries and selling and than that hurts cashflow,increases the risk of storage problems and we would have weeks of more hauling when there's more important things to do in the growing season and when time is critical. The cwb works really well for us in this way.
You really dont get it do you ?? Whilst you are laying around on your piles of grain fattening yourself, The emperor in his new clothes is still marketing your wheat. Seriously what rock do you live under?? Just because you dont sell your other grain untill spring when so called harvest pressure subsides, doesn't make the CWB a marketing savior, or you a marketing genius. Perhaps if you had locked in some other crops at a profitable price, you would'nt be worrying about having to wait until spring. While you are eagerly anticipating markets to improve come spring, the CWB is giving your wheat away today.. By the way how much durum wheat do you figure guys are hauling in thats generating this cashflow you speak of?? Im not sure what it takes to operate your farm, but hauling 50,000 bushels of durum at the CWB's initial price will not generate much money for anyone this fall (if you can even haul it). I can generate more cashflow with "every other crop i grow" than i can with board crops in the fall. This statement from you is ridiculous. Please dont waste your time in "debunking the myths" of hauling across the line. Without the CWB, Viterra,Cargil, JRI, will still be buying wheat here. Also the comparisons you are trying to draw with regards to the price in ND and CWB is like comparing apples and turds. The PRO is an estimate, therefore not accurate and uncomparable.
You say "you talked to the rep before you had an opinion on the board" -but when you you were telling your story in the previous post you said you "gave a CWB rep a good chewing out about how they hinder my ability to run a business" Which story is right?
I don't want to keep picking on you, but your credibility is going down the tubes.Your numbers were wrong and you say the rep told you that he "believed that young people should not be farming"? This is just way to far out there and unbelievable. Its obvious your making things up for your convenience as we go. NuttyTown is starting to sound appropriate.
In my next post I will debunk the myth of a dual market and explain why driving across the line to sell wht won't neccessarily be worth our time in an open market.
ROFL.
FYI:
I talked with my Rep more than once. He was at this meet&greet thingy in 2007, which was before I ever grew wheat. We had a chat, and he came across as brash, arrogant, and, well stupid. This may have something to do that he is a "local", mind you.
After I found out about the whole get-you-money-next-winter thing, I rang him up, and chewed him out for it.
Yes, elevators in the US are open Saturdays during harvest pressure (well, some are). It's called service. You may get that if you weren't selling everything thru your beloved CWB.
Canadian elevators were open Saturday's too. Viterra in Forrest was, Cargil in Dauphin was too. In case you think I'm making that up, here's an Email from Viterra, from August 26:
Quote:
CWB CWRS basis contracts are a positive basis today... You may want to get the basis set on some and let the futures have time to improve It doesn't effect the time you can deliver it...
Canola for August delivery closed at $9.60 today Still extremely good fall canola basis levels
Flax hitting $10.50 for August delivery today
Still putting old crop oats on basis contracts and having them delivered right away Getting about $1.90 if you priced out today...
Rye... falling numbers need to be tested... we may have a market for the low falling numbers right now...
Moving barley.... about $2.45 today....
CWRW and CWRS have 25% calls on or 45 tonnes.... your choice... Call us with your seeded acres if you haven't got your book done yet... We can make it ready for Prime Time
Did you hear about Brandons grain delivery hours ? 7:30 am to 7:30 Pm Monday through Saturday
If you have a production contract with us please review what your part of the deal is now so that it gets binned and priced properly...
If you haul # 2 cwrw to the board you may have to wait awhile for a cheque...the price was established wrong and Ottawa and CWB are trying to fix it up !
On another note... don't be spraying Glyphosate on oats or Malt barley varieties...
Gotta run !
Ray the Grain Guy Brandon
Now, you say the CWB "helps" you because you can haul grain whenever. Have you actually ever heard of a Basis contract & futures contract?
You can sell wheat all-year-round, like you do canola, have delivery contracts for Oct - Nov - Dec, the wheat is already pre-priced, you just haul in and head off. You have grain flo, and cash flo, and CASH NOW. We did this with part of our production, works out really well, and you can take advantage of the summer weather rallies.
With Wheat you can actually make more money, because you can work with the USD vs CAD. This is very simple to do - in fact, something I do daily b/c of my US-based IT business.
As for your method of pricing... how can you take the current in-pit price, to compare with a PRO? Actually, who delivers grain to a pit-price anymore these days?!?
As a rule of thumb, always go one month out because the current contract month will almost always be depressed.
Joined: Jun 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,921 Location: Guymon, OK
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #177 on Nov 15, 2009, 9:37am »
I'm just going to say that a lot of elevators are open on Sunday for at least a half-day during harvest. Ours is closed today, though, due to widespread rain during the night. They'd be closed anyway because all the employees have worked too many days without a break.
Interesting discussion. *refills his popcorn bowl*
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 118 Location: Alberta/Saskatchewan
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #179 on Nov 15, 2009, 10:27am »
Yeah....reginaboldholt lives in sask. I always take my moisturetester along when we harvest our land out there cause friday evening everybody starts running...they still suffer under their CWB/NDP system....service is picking up though. And then there are places like the weyburn inland terminal which is a very well run business in my opinion. I think they would perform well in a free world too. Richardson was open every sunday during harvest in our area in AB.
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