For CWB lovers « Thread Started on Feb 13, 2009, 5:34pm »
If you think let the CWB do my marketing , keep reading and let me know what you think.................
Snorton.
CWB annual report confirms huge trading losses Posted on 02/12/2009,
The Canadian Wheat Board’s annual report released yesterday confirmed that the CWB suffered huge financial losses in its producer pricing options in the 2007/08 crop year. These losses amounted to $89.5 million, or almost $20 per tonne, and come on top of $39.9 million in losses on these pricing options in the previous year.
The $89.5 million loss was charged against the CWB’s contingency fund, which now rests with a negative balance of $28.9 million. The losses on the CWB’s pricing options (including the fixed price, basis price and daily price contracts) were partially offset by gains on cash trading activities ($20.0 million), early payment options ($3.1 million) and excess interest earnings on the feed barley pools ($2.1 million). The CWB also transferred $25.5 million from the pool accounts to the contingency fund, resulting in a net decrease of $38.8 million in the contingency fund.
The annual report also indicates that the CWB lost $226 million in “discretionary commodity trading activity”. It is not clear how much of these losses were allocated to the producer payment options versus the pool accounts.
The Wheat Growers are confounded by the huge trading losses in the CWB’s pricing options, given that basis levels to prairie farmers during the year were often very unattractive compared to basis levels for spring and winter wheat that were visible at northern U.S. elevators.
“If anything, the CWB should be making significant profits on these price programs, given the discounts Canadian farmers see relative to U.S. farmers,” says Rolf Penner, Manitoba Vice President of the Wheat Growers. “It appears as if the CWB was asleep at the switch and got caught on the wrong side of the market.”
The huge losses in its trading activity suggests the CWB does not have a good risk management program in place.
The Wheat Growers also strongly object to the transfer of funds between the pool accounts and the contingency fund. While the CWB says that it intends to pay back the money to the pool accounts, the Wheat Growers note that the group of farmers in the various pool accounts, and the amount of grain they deliver to the pools, can vary substantially from year to year.
“The role of the CWB is not to arbitrarily redistribute wealth among farmers,” says Kevin Bender, President of the Wheat Growers. “The Wheat Growers have repeatedly asked the CWB to ensure there is no cross-subsidization between the pool accounts and the pricing programs.”
The Wheat Growers fear that pricing options will be unattractive in future years as the CWB attempts to recoup its losses in the past two years.
The Wheat Growers are also alarmed about the continuing lack of cost control at the CWB. The Informa study released last year showed that the CWB’s administrative costs have increased an average of 7.2% annually over the past 20 years. The latest report shows costs increased a further 5.0% . The Wheat Growers wrote to federal Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz earlier this week asking him to rein in the out-of-control spending at the CWB.
“This all points to the need for a voluntary CWB,” says Bender. “Farmers should not be forced to pay for the mistakes of others. Just as Canadian investors are free to choose their stockbroker, prairie farmers should be free to choose their grain marketer.”
Joined: Oct 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 39 Location: Killam alberta
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #1 on Feb 13, 2009, 6:53pm »
hey snorten I could not agree with you more. I think it is f**k**g ridiculous how these bastards run things, its like they are trying to lose money. And there is f**k all i can do about it. there are a lot of farmers i have talked to about this and they love the cwb, FOR SHAME!!!! And the cwb thinking that i would not be able to survive without them is laughable, let me decide what to do with my wheat!!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 187 Location: s. e. saskatchewan
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #2 on Feb 16, 2009, 10:51am »
i agree with you guys 100% . cwb was a good idea back in the 1940s, but has no place in todays world. have fun telling that to cwb supporters that have all the cwb propaganda memorized!
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,666 Location: SE AB
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #3 on Feb 16, 2009, 2:09pm »
"The CWB also transferred $25.5 million from the pool accounts to the contingency fund"
This will just set it up for hardcore CWB pool guys to get flustered and angry at the pricing options. The CWB will then remove these options and we'll be back to the pool only.
I like the new CWB print ads that say that we're all owners. I'm now wondering where I can sell my share...
Joined: Aug 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 728 Location: Sask
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #5 on Feb 18, 2009, 12:10am »
I am not defending the CWB for being on the wrong side of their trades. I just would like to be realistic about the situation. Being on the wrong side of trades happens...has to me plenty of times!
I bet every farmer on here other than me sold all their grain at the very top of the market! Everyones bins must be right empty? It pains me to think of how much money I forgave to keep stock.
I would venture to say that if all the farmers in a radius of say 100km calculated the decrease in the value of there stock today versus the top of the market the figure would be alarming. These figures of course are not reported so they are not talked about...except when they keep me up at night!!
The situation that the CWB got themselves in was actually unfortunate. Once wheat values got to a point where the fundamentals supported the values, they shorted the market (big position given the amount of grain they have to sell). This is normal every day business for a seller including a farmer. The commodity craze goes on and funds and specs take the market way beyond fundamental data suggests. margin calls are huge and if they can't afford to role their position to future contracts they have to liquidate that position and abondon the hedge. Cash flow is still king after all...for any company or organization. I have done this numerous times...sometimes you win, sometimes you lose but as long as you are over 50% your doing ok. Remember for every trade there is a winner and a loser.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 251 Location: Sask. Canada
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #6 on Feb 18, 2009, 1:25am »
Jester: I get what you are saying.. But what bothers me is: if we are to believe what the CWB hammers down our throats, "isn't the CWB suppose to protect us from the dark side of the Grain Business?"
I know everyone makes mistakes.. I just want to be able to control the mistakes that effect my farm and especially the Business side of it.. I don't want to be micro managed by someone else then find out that they cost me cash.. or wont allow me to cut and run when I need cash flow..
and now I heard, Haven't been able to confirm this with the CWB(they aren't talking) that the hedge losses/gains wont be mentioned in the Annual Report .
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #7 on Feb 18, 2009, 9:35am »
Hi guys you should do wat we did in ontario press for duel marketing then the cwb will self distruct on its own once farmers can price ther own wheat. the ontario wheat producers markiting board now only handles a small % of the ontario crop in the pools. also we now have control over wer and wen we deliver our wheat.
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,666 Location: SE AB
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #8 on Feb 18, 2009, 6:53pm »
The CWB may be able to get the same amount / bu. But I want to be able to sell my wheat that I grew myself to the people that I want to sell it to at whatever price I can get. Kind of like almost every other industry in the world. Let me make the mistakes, not someone else for me. Conversely, let me make the good sales too, not someone else for me.
Joined: Oct 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,180 Location: NuttyTown, MB, Canada
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #9 on Feb 18, 2009, 7:45pm »
I must say that I'd rather market wheat on my own, like everyone else here... I've made enough mistakes in marketing (and did a few deals that almost feel too good to be true hehehe), but they are MY mistakes, and not those of someone totally remote; blaming yourself is better than blaming someone sitting in Winnipeg.
On the other hand, due to the fusarium / ergot in wheat, I'd be selling feed wheat instead of #2; so on that side, the CWB actually helped me out this year...
Hi guys you should do wat we did in ontario press for duel marketing then the cwb will self distruct on its own once farmers can price ther own wheat. the ontario wheat producers markiting board now only handles a small % of the ontario crop in the pools. also we now have control over wer and wen we deliver our wheat.
Dude you just dont know how much that hurts Trying man, trying really hard
I think the borg knows this and alot of the good yobs, yobs, yobs... are at stake at portage and main
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #12 on Feb 19, 2009, 5:52pm »
Hello all, I'm Parsley and someone told me my ears were burning on this site, so I'm kinda barging in on your coffee breaks and asking if you'd give a hand. I hope you don't mind.
On my blog, Parsley's Notebook, which northernfarmer mentioned, in his thread, I have pages where farmers and those who support choice farmers can sign up to ask Minister Ritz to call for a forensic analysis of the Wheat board's recent hedging activities.
The CWB decided to finger-shuffle $226Million from the pooling accounts. Now to me, that''s a tidy sum and makes people a bit finger-itchy.
The contingency fund, which is supposed to be a rainy day fund, is deep in the red, so the CWB started gathering up famers' grain sales' money to plump up the red-inked account. Unfortunately, for farmers, the contingency fund has no backstops on it. No limits.. So the CWB could actually run it $2B in the red, or $4B, or whatever they choose. And then replenish it.
So what, you ask? Well, Western farmers cannot get licenses to sell their grain, so they HAVE to sell it to the CWB. The CWB is the only game in town who can legally issue wheat and barley licenses in Canada, and they provide them for everyone, EXCEPT Western famers.
Thus, Western farmers have to sell to the CWB, the money goes into the CWB pooling accounts and the pooling accounts can be raided by the CWB.
The CWB make Western farmers an offer we cannot refuse.
Hence, an independent forensic audit. We need to examine what they are doing.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #14 on Feb 20, 2009, 5:56pm »
Well, I get on a rant, Christian, and I'm the first to admit it, and I'm incorrigible, and a harpie at times, (wikipedia that one, it's bloody interesting, lol), so maybe you won't want me on for long, but I actually am a real farmer, so thanks for the welcome.
As you know, Olive Chatenay, Jim's wife died. He was Alberta's past CWB director before Neilsen took his place. She was the love of his life, for sure. A bunch of us had a conference call with Jim, every Sunday morning for about a dozen or so years, so we know his heart is aching, and he'll be stiff and sore too, as he's sat upright sleeping in a chair by her bed for the last month or so.
So any rant I'm on for the next few days is for Olive. She was the nicest of nice. We discussed the Wheat Board many times. And she knew what they are. She's approve of my rant.
LWeber posed a question on Agriville with the above link following. What's in force?
Some of you are young and full of p & v, and should be looking this up and studying it. Don't be lazy. lol If you are, somebody will eat your money just like a hungry harmless looking kitten grabs a fresh almost dead mouse.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #15 on Feb 20, 2009, 8:56pm »
Just a note to tell you I put a link on my blog to this page. And named it Young Farmers. lol. If you want me to remove it, I will, I'm being a bit brassy here, but I thought you might enjoy a little bit of feisty traffic exiting my blog. lol Pars
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 53 Location: Onoway, Alberta
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #16 on Feb 25, 2009, 5:15pm »
Don't get me wrong I'm not for thr CWB, but in my view it is not the board the angers me the most it is the Fed's. I am all for the CWB on one condition, that the whole country has to be on it, ALL OR NOTHING. The man who makes me the most mad is not even in the government benches, and of course his name is Wanye Easter. By the way Mr. Easter when did PEI become part of Western Canada, must have missed that class in school. The best thing that can happen is that the CWB becomes a choice not a memory. That way the friends of the board can keep thier pet and we can have our choice.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #17 on Feb 26, 2009, 12:35am »
tx66man,
Parallel your idea of a national wheat marketing agency, ...it's okay you say as long as everyone is in the hot tub, ....with a national art marketing agency! Does that seem agreeable to you?
Not to me at all.
The point is..it is my grain, I grow it, and if I want to co-operate with you in marketing the grain, fine, but if I don't like the smell of your armpits, well, I may not want you as a business partener. And I should have the choice.
Joined: Oct 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 39 Location: Killam alberta
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #19 on Feb 26, 2009, 9:34am »
The cwb supporters that i know are in there later years (50-70) . they some how believe that if we get ride of the cwb (like that will ever happen) grain buyers will steal there wheat. When i say "why do you grow canola then", for some reason this shuts them up I to am a young farmer this will be my 3 year on my own, in this time i have watched what the American farmers get for there wheat compared to what i get. Seems like the cwb sells wheat when the price goes down not up. If there are any cwb supporters on here nows your turn to tell my why I'm wrong!!!! Thanks for your support parsley, and welcome
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2009, 9:48am by albertafarmer »
Joined: Oct 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 3,180 Location: NuttyTown, MB, Canada
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #20 on Feb 26, 2009, 9:53am »
Hmm...
I've heard that "big bed elefators steel mai veet" line from a lot of oldtimers too... never figured that one out - but as you say, what about canola? or even flax (which has no market).
Then again, most of those same farmers sell for the cash price, when they take a load to the elevator :S
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 53 Location: Onoway, Alberta
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #21 on Feb 26, 2009, 3:01pm »
You guys must not have read the part were I said I AM NOT FOR THE CWB. But I wil say this that the Cwb has some good points about it. Because with barley you have the choice over the years we have sold our barley both ways. Some years on the board others to feed lot's and others open market elevator. And I can safely say that we have done better of board than on. One thing I will say about old timeers is that In our household is is my 78 year old Grandfather that is most against the CWB.
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #23 on Feb 26, 2009, 4:34pm »
The Wheat Board supporter is a person who inevitably believes someone else can do a better job of selling your grain, from your farm,( not understanding your location or circumstances, or cash flow needs, )THAN YOU DO.
It's not the age. t's the mindset. Some of the old farmers I know wouldn't move off the farm or make room for the young guy either. HE KNOWS BEST. You think? Pars
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #24 on Feb 26, 2009, 4:54pm »
No you can't sell barley for export, though . Nor malt barley for interprovincial or export trade.
You can sell feed barley. Do you know why, though?
A wonderful man by the name of Somerville loaded up his wheat in Saskatchewan, on his farm, and trucked it to a feedlot in Alberta where his cows were, to feed it to them.
The Wheat Board had him arrested and put in jail because he didn't have an interprovincial CWB license.
Bastards.(Kick me off the site, it's worth it.lol)
He took the CWB to the Supreme Court, and won the right to feed his own grain from his own farm to his own cows, (In those days, the Wheat Board disallowed it via a backroom motion) and to this day,I can truck feed barley into any province because of what Somerville did. Don't forget what you have is because someone else struggled like heck. You should talk to his wife. I did. Pars
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 53 Location: Onoway, Alberta
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #25 on Feb 26, 2009, 9:24pm »
With thinking and talk like that we are never going to get rid of the board. The main reason why it is still here is thanks to the half wit wheat farmer who all he wants to do is get rid of the darn stuff. They just dump wheat right of the combine, taking the board price. But on the other hand the sit on their canola till the new year trying to get the most out of it. I simply can not understand their thinking.We need choice when it comes to marketing our grain.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 98 Location: Alberta/Saskatchewan
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #26 on Feb 26, 2009, 9:28pm »
It's not only the wheat board that sucks. As long as I can decide and have a choice...dual market...they can keep it. The more competition the better. But seems like governments don't watch that at all and let everybody merge including agrium. What also sucks is our medieval grain grading system. When I was still farming in europe we had a machine that would grind the wheat to flour within a couple minutes and print out protein, the baking qualities , falling number and the only visual check was for fusarium and smut. But here we have to look and every little shrivel is called frost.....we never had frost back in europe but it shriveled sometimes but guess what it still made the grade when the baking quality was there......but here in our hostile climate we have to create ourselves additional problems as we wouldn't have enough and its the wheat boards fault for the most part. They are also the reason that we haven't developed more productive varieties. Just look what happened in the canola breeding and we can sell it too ...at the time we want to....what a comfort. Just ask a board supporter why canola is called a cash crop.
What also sucks is our medieval grain grading system.
And how about that dockage? No matter how nice the sample is, there is always a significant number for dockage.
I think a good point has been hit on here. A large amount of wheat board supporters just don't want to be bothered with marketing their own grain. Sure, they might grow a little canola and market it themselves, but the majority of the crop is wheat or barley. I mean, after a pre seed burnoff, seeding, spraying a time or 2, harvest, and possibly another round of chemical on select fields, who can be bothered to try and market it.
Now, I'm not saying you can't make it as a farmer with the cwb. A lot of farmers have done quite well for themselves under the cwb by managing their land and finances well. I'm just saying that I would like to make the choice to sell my grain where I choose, whether I make a good decision or a poor one.
And on a side note, The argument could be made that if the large majority of farmers that the board claims support the cwb actually do, why would they care if the cwb loses its monopoly. Wouldn't the majority of farmers make the cwb viable by choosing to market their grain through them? Of course the answer is that they don't have the support they claim to have from growers. Also, they don't have facilities, and as soon as the monopoly was gone, my guess is all the grain companies would tell the cwb to shove it.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 37 Location: Red River Valley
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #28 on Mar 5, 2009, 1:46pm »
Pretty typical canadian politics here. One set of rules in the East and a totally different set in the West. CWB supporters around here are mostly Mennonites that are 50-70 years old. I had one of them tell me the CWB should stay because we should work together and thats what the lord would want. I dont quite understand what god and marketing wheat have to do with one another.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 53 Location: Onoway, Alberta
Re: For CWB lovers « Reply #29 on Mar 5, 2009, 9:17pm »
Even as a good christian person I have not one clue what either what God and the CWB have to do with one another. And yes, it is typical of canadian politics. While I don't agree with his ideas Tommy Douglas said one thing right, "Canada is like a old cow, the west feeds her, Ontario and Quebec milk her, and God only knows what she does in the East".
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And the cwb thinking that i would not be able to survive without them is laughable, let me decide what to do with my wheat!!!!!!!!
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I to am a young farmer this will be my 3 year on my own, in this time i have watched what the American farmers get for there wheat compared to what i get. Seems like the cwb sells wheat when the price goes down not up. If there are any cwb supporters on here nows your turn to tell my why I'm wrong!!!! 
