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Dec 27, 2009, 10:05am

The Combine Forum :: Harvesting Community :: Gleaner :: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger in Na

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orange
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #30 on Nov 5, 2009, 6:45pm »

Latest information from marketing is, AGCO orange and Challenger roughly the same in over 100HP, MF a distant 3rd in NA.

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hammerman
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #31 on Nov 5, 2009, 7:07pm »

Its a well known fact that over 95% of the tractors that are built in Beauvais are painted red.

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Combiness
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #32 on Nov 5, 2009, 7:18pm »

Pretty sad that no one is even interested in supporting the orange tractors or silver combines, let alone taking time to contact their dealers. :'(

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Obstacles are the things we see when we take our eyes off our goals.

Yesterday's science fiction is today's science reality.

The more I learn about combines...the more I realize what I don't know about them.

It's settled. If I get to come back, I'm going to do it as a combine!

Combiness
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #33 on Nov 5, 2009, 7:21pm »

Too bad you won't even stick by your Gleaner [AGCO] dealer, Wafarmer.

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ru4gleaner2
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #34 on Nov 5, 2009, 8:57pm »

Nov 5, 2009, 7:18pm, Combiness wrote:

Pretty sad that no one is even interested in supporting the orange tractors or silver combines, let alone taking time to contact their dealers. :'(

Combiness,

Have you actually taken the time to read the official transcript from that same meeting or just the Farm Journal watered down version? I think that Farm Journal journalist took a few items here and there and put them in his or her own words like a typical journalist. I'll paste a link so everyone can read for themselves. Sounds like to me full steam ahead for Agco. Oh and in case you don't read through far enough check out the North America Combine sales 2009 versus 2008. North America combine sales up nearly 20% in 2009 versus 2008 and 2008 was supposedly one the best years ever for Agco. I believe that looked to be the only positive figure versus 2008 for Agco. Considering Gleaner is Agco's #1 North America combine I don't see it going away anytime soon.

http://www.agcocorp.com/company/media_press_releases.aspx

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orange
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #35 on Nov 5, 2009, 9:00pm »

Just move to hammer Europe, thats where your magical number is sold as well. I believe we are discussing the US market here.

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hammerman
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #36 on Nov 5, 2009, 9:35pm »

Its not a magical number,its fact,you asked the question so I gave you the answer.If the oldsmobile division and the later the Pontiac division be dropped from the planet I don,t think its earth shattering news if we loose the AGCO decal,like I said vote with your checkbook.

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Combiness
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #37 on Nov 5, 2009, 9:37pm »

Actually I have, Ru4. In fact, I have already taken time to further contact those involved in the Farm Journal story.

I need for you to e-mail me a list of all the AGCO dealers in Kansas, along with their e-mails, so I can send them all an open letter about this. I'd have already compiled all the names, but I also work a full time job, along with the things I must do at home. I really believe that YOU really DO care about this great combine. You just never get with me, one-on-one to discuss their aspects and the politics of Richenhagen's AGCO.

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casefarmer
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #38 on Nov 5, 2009, 10:52pm »

If that list is as long as the one in illinois then atleast u won't have to make more than 4 Phone calls/emails. Lol

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wafarmer
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #39 on Nov 5, 2009, 10:52pm »

Hey Combiness. If you would calm down and read it. I said I went a time or two. I buy 75% of my parts out of my local dealer. I turn to others when I need something now, such as a belt or bearing, and my dealer doesn't have it in stock, which is a little perturbing because it happens on a regular basis. I like the machine, alot! Therefore, I have many channels to get what I need, when I need it. When you are in the custom business, you can't wait for stock freight to arrive next week wednesday. Another question I am going to dare put out there. What percentage of Challenger tractors sold come out on wheels? Seeing a tracked Challenger is nothing special. But a Challenger swather or baler, or wheel tractor, you take a double take. As far as market share. On tractorhouse, in the 100-174 hp range, AGCO and AGCO Allis combined have 111 tractors listed. Challenger, 38. Numbers should indicate market share. AGCO White, has only 17 listings to draw even more perspective. Compare those numbers, and as an executive, I think that would mean something. I included AGCO, and AGCO Allis together, because they have been around roughly as long as the Challenger brand. Even separated, their are more orange tractors out there. As far as parts go, 3 separate channels is a little redundant. But, my MF 4235 shares a majority of its parts with a LT75, right down to the part number. They were all painted black. So technically, I have AGCO parts on a MF, ordered from an AGCO dealer. The technician even said that training for these brands was all done together, and were later separated out when it came to the engine. That is really the only difference. So I don't know how much expense is incurred by having 3 brands, but I bet alot of the parts sit side by side in warehouses, regardless of color. The tour van is going to be traveling dealer to dealer for 2 more years, or that is what they claim. And it is promoting AGCO tractors only!

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Combiness
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #40 on Nov 6, 2009, 7:43pm »

Then send my links to your area Gleaner dealers to read, Wafarmer.

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connor
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #41 on Nov 7, 2009, 1:16pm »

hammerman, what if they dropped Massey Ferguson? How would you feel then? and 95% of the tractors built in France may be red but what hp range are they. My guess is most of them are 120 hp and smaller. And where do nearly 100% of that 95% go? Not the North American market. Ship MF out of the NA market and leave them overseas as far as I'm concerned.

I've said it before and I'll say it again if Agco does anymore brand shuffling or gets rid of the Agco brands that I still run then I'm done with them for good. I'm not buying a Massey. I'll switch to the good red (IH) before that.

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Combiness
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #42 on Nov 7, 2009, 1:38pm »

Connor, Masseys are not really "bad" combines. It's just that the true name was lost to history, 22 years ago. This so-called "Massey" AGCO now has is nothing more than synthetic holdover of what used to be a White before it was sold to the failing Massey Combine Corporation in 1985. Both White and Massey-Ferguson combines were very good, too. Today's AGCO-made "Massey" has no more White or Massey blood in it, than German shepherds are for real sheep herding.

Please forward the link I've posted to your Gleaner dealer, too.

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connor
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #43 on Nov 7, 2009, 1:52pm »

I'm not really concerned about the combines. They can stay because losing the MF off the side of the combine would probably kill that line in my honest opinion, I don't know if the Challenger name could make up for it. As for the tractors, whatev. And what other equipment does Massey have? NONE! Now everything else is getting the Massey name plastered on it, what a disgrace to such good products. I'll never buy another White planter if it's going to come with a Massey decal on it.

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fhb
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #44 on Nov 7, 2009, 3:09pm »

Connor, thats what I was thinking, keep MF overseas as trying to market MF as a main brand in NA seems to be not a great success story so far. The multibrand approach is what has worked for them. The Gleaners, Whites, sunflowers, etc are NA brands.

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Combiness
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #45 on Nov 7, 2009, 4:12pm »

Connor, a White planter is a White planter, period. It would not matter if they were painted pink with orange polka dots and given a "Toys R Us" decal. They're still going to be the same old type of high-quality planters we have come to know and trust.

Don't eschew White planters if they simply bear another name or trademark. ::)

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hammerman
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #46 on Nov 8, 2009, 9:28am »

Connor if you new anything about AGCO you would know that the 'High horsepower tractors' are built in Beavais,before commenting on something do a little 'homework'.As far as dropping Massey,well,that would be a little silly now wouldn't it.The product is the same so why do you need different names,if GM drops the Chev truck would you refuse to buy a 'GMC'?There are more changes coming not only with AGCO but in the industry as well.Remeber 'AGCO' stands for agriculture company and there are just trying to help you be more efficient and productive.

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rburk
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #47 on Nov 8, 2009, 2:24pm »

AGCO stands for Allis Gleaner Corp.

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connor
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #48 on Nov 8, 2009, 3:35pm »

I know where the tractors are built. Have been well aware of that for a long time now. I know White and Allis were being built over there before they were morphed in Agco. If you knew so much about Agco then you'd know that Massey is at the bottom of the list for sales as far as NA goes. No big secret there, and has been that way for a long long time. Yes they are built in France and yes Massey sells big over there. But that's a completely different market than the NA market. Just becasue it sells there doesn't mean it sells here. Drop Massey from the European market and I'll agree that maybe that would bea dumb move. I don't think the Massey tractor line would be missed too bad here in North America. Sure by a few but not enough to distrupt the tractor world. And I may not know the most about Masseys history but I probably know just as much about Agco as you do hammerman. We've been running Agco products since the day Agco became a company and have run the brands that were its predecessors. So if you don't like my comments don't just assume I know nothing about Agco. Again, Massey is not Agco. Really it's just another trademark of Agco just like all the other brands bought by them. It's been lucky enough to survive in the NA market for some stupid reason.

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connor
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #49 on Nov 8, 2009, 3:40pm »

And I don't care if its still a White planter or a Gleaner combine, if it's that disgusting red and says Massey on it I'm not buying it. Maybe not so much just because it says Massey but also because Agco needs to stick with names and a lineup. But probably moreso becasue it says Massey on it.

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masseypride
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #50 on Nov 9, 2009, 8:45pm »

Connor,

C'mon man

Quote:

Posted by connor on Yesterday at 3:40pm
And I don't care if its still a White planter or a Gleaner combine, if it's that disgusting red and says Massey on it I'm not buying it. Maybe not so much just because it says Massey but also because Agco needs to stick with names and a lineup. But probably moreso becasue it says Massey on it.

Classic example of why your not taken seriously on this forum.

Masseypride

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Combiness
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #51 on Nov 9, 2009, 9:00pm »

Nov 8, 2009, 3:40pm, connor wrote:

...But probably moreso becasue it says Massey on it.

Indeed that is rather small-minded and prejudiced thinking, Connor.

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connor
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #52 on Nov 10, 2009, 7:03am »

It's not really small minded. For starters, Massey is non-existent for miles upon miles around here. Agco dealers are already getting thin, now let everything become Massey Ferguson and the remaining Agco dealers would become non exixtent just like the Massey Ferguson brand is. I'm not the only person who feels this way. I know my local Agco dealer would be gone if it were to come to this. They move absolutely no Massey equipment, and I don't think the remaining customers would switch to Massey if this plan were implemented.

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orange
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #53 on Nov 10, 2009, 7:38am »

Rumor has it that 2 large CAT dealers just dropped Challenger. This being the case, it is only a matter of time before AGCO is all done in NA, then the dominoes start to fall and they will collapse globally under the little dictators rule. It is almost impossible to play in this market but not participating in the most important ag market: The US!

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hammerman
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #54 on Nov 10, 2009, 11:20am »

OMG orange are you talking about the all so important US dealers that wont spend two nickels to support themselves and fly down to Florida for the AGCO meetings because they say it cost to much so AGCO had to cancel them.Ya if I was Martin I would really be supportive of these people!I'm going combining,have a nice day.

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orange
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #55 on Nov 10, 2009, 12:25pm »

Hammer, try reading the comment! It is the CAT dealers that don't want to go to Florida, now they are starting to drop Challenger. This what they are doing, not anybody else.

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kid
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #56 on Nov 10, 2009, 12:32pm »

Is Toromont one of the dealers getting out of ag

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orange
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #57 on Nov 10, 2009, 8:38pm »

Rumor I heard was the large dealer in Florida that also covers parts of Alabama and one in Canada, sounds like they are keeping Lexion but no Challenger.

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Combiness
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #58 on Nov 10, 2009, 8:48pm »

Nov 10, 2009, 7:03am, connor wrote:

I agree with what you say, but just refusing to buy a White planter, just for being branded "Massey," is small-minded. I already educated you as to why the mere name change makes no difference. Parts are parts.

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corsair
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Re: Agco switching to only Massey and Challenger i
« Reply #59 on Nov 10, 2009, 9:06pm »

I predict the challenger line will disappear before too long as it is quite apparent that CAT dealers want only to sell lexion products and no wonder it is their own product. Challenger has always been the ba****d stepchild on the lot that any cat man worth his salt sees as some outsider product that they don't care about or want anything to do with. Think about it CAT and AGCO, not much in common, strange arranged marrage. Not destined to last. Probably some strange corporate way for some faction within CAT to stay in ag business without being in the ag business. For agco an experiment to test their dealer network and see if it could be useful. It appears that it is not particularly useful as the CAT network loathes challenger products. In conclusion, I doubt things are going to change a whole lot in the near future. However if AGCO decided to pull out of the high horsepower north american market, I would not be totally surprised. This large equipment requires too much capital investment on the part of dealers to keep it servicable and the typical high roller customer satisfied with lots of service and dealer ability to move their low hour trades onto the next customer. Deere is the master of this and to a lesser extent CaseIH. One final thought in regard to combine reliability and quality, I think the engineering is pretty sound for all brands however outsourced parts and assembly is the real problem. Too many different models coming down the same assembly line and the demands on the workers to handle so many different tasks make quality suffer. When they get good with one model here comes something different requiring different parts and techniques. Then if things get a little slow they lay people off at the drop of a hat and if these people find other work their experience and practice are lost, and even if they come back sometimes they have to relearn as time hurts memory. No wonder there are so many problems with new units these days. Outsourcing makes for impossible quality management and shortcuts and overload of worker's abilities leads to trouble.

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