Joined: May 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 135 Location: Northern Ireland
New chopper,need advice!! « Thread Started on Nov 3, 2009, 4:09pm »
I know conditions in Northern Ireland are ALOT different to those in NA but need some advice:
We are changing our 2006 Claas 900 with pick-up/RU600 and Disco 520 heads this Winter. We have priced a 2010 Claas 960 with pick-up and Orbis750 and the price to change has severely shocked us!! (we will deal seperately on a QC400 direct disc head as our wholecrop acres have gone down these past few years were the maize acres have greatly increased)
We are now pricing a JD7950i with pick-up/Kemper 8row (475?) along with a NH FR9090 and matching heads. We may also price a Krone Big X(with pick-up/ EZ collect and X-disc heads) but the 800 has the two engines which would make it heavy for our type of fields and we don't think the 650 will have the same performance as the 7950/9090. We are also very wary of the Big X because there are only two others working in NI(both 650;s) and resale may be a BIG problem. Heard a rumour one of the Big X 650 owners tried to change for the 2009 season to a new X650 but the resale of his trade put him off!!
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 196 Location: upstate NY
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #1 on Nov 3, 2009, 5:49pm »
why are you pricing a 650 hp claas and krone but 800 + hp john deere and new holland? also why are you not pricing a new 900 green eye? they are still building them,we just ordered one a couple weeks ago. i have no info on the other three,but the 494 series claas,still have some teething issues,not the others are perfect.
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #2 on Nov 3, 2009, 8:31pm »
Seems almost like you have the answer to your own question no? You have had reliable performance with the 900. They still offer it only in green eye form or maybe that is what you already have. Can you still use your heads and just switch machines. The orbis is ok but does not like anything to difficult thrown at it. We broke most of the center frame out of the back of our pick up head only to have the dealer come out and say oh this bolt is loose and cused all the damage see you. Big X 650 is a good machine but it sounds like there is little to no support and there is a learning curve that from what I have seen depending on how the company has dealt with it will be saying its the biggest piece or we like it. To me I dont know why you would be pricing an 800 when you can throw the same chip in the 650 or 900 its the same motor, whats the difference. If krone becomes an option 650 or 800 you HAVE to get the 10 ROW head. Why one feeds better than the other is beyond me but trust me there is a difference. I dont know anything about the tri fold heads so I cant tell you if that will work or not. To me john deere is not even on the playing field. New holland is coming along in our area, but for us they dont have heavy duty liners. There are still questions in my mind on performance through grass but I hope to have a better knowledge after May. You definitely need the dual drive machine that has hydros for feedrolls and header seperate not one doing both. Good luck maybe ultimately it will come down to $$$$$$$$$$$$ more than which machine is best.
Joined: Nov 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 86 Location: I stir piles to get the stink
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #3 on Nov 3, 2009, 8:33pm »
I think that when every one else is using some thing that it is probably best to stick with them if you are thinking about resale. I, as in me personally, would not buy a krone product any time soon. As for the Deere I have heard of less than ecstatic performance at a demo day placing the output of the Deere 7950 somewhere in between a Claas 900 and 980. Get a new 900 if you can with the orbis 750 IMO
Joined: May 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 135 Location: Northern Ireland
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #5 on Nov 4, 2009, 4:35pm »
A 900 green eye is NOT an option because its the old "keeping up with the Jones's" senario,two other agri contractors close by changed their 900's this past season one to a 960 and one to a 970.Heres that 970 cutting wholecrop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boqH0RZxP3g&feature=related and what looks like 50' of rowed up 2nd cut grass and no the camera isn't speeded up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDAgFM8NNHM&feature=related We have one of the "20'000 world map" special paint job 900's of which I think there was only 20 made by Claas for worldwide sale and to "just" change to a green eye 900 would raise a few eyebrows,we are a premium agri contractor afterall!!!!
I'm not all that familiar with the Big X but does the 800 model have one engine or two and would it be much heavier with the "tri-fold" EZ than a FR9090 or JD7950i with a Kemper? (We couldn't use the normal fold up EZ headers as they are said to have terrible forward vision when on the road) We are hoping to get a demo JD7950i with 10row Kemper in the next day or two and we will see how she copes with a nice wet field of wet maize!!!!
The boss just may well be toying with the Claas dealer by pricing the others and we could well end up just going for the 960 with 750 Orbis in the end.
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #7 on Nov 5, 2009, 12:13pm »
i think all are good machines, all have there good and bad points, i would go with the one that has the best service from the dealership. thats just my opinion.
that will be some mean cash to part with no matter what you buy
Your right Matt, its not a 2006(my mistake ) it came to us new for the 2005 season and we normally change the chopper after five years. Are there many FR9090's about your part of England,heard any reports? Do you know Butt Bros think they run a 2009 FR9090 around Somerset? I wouldn't like to be signing the cheque either!!!
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #9 on Nov 7, 2009, 1:34am »
Yes butt bros are about 10 miles from us, havent heard how they are doing with it since i havent been there, they also changed from a 5 yr old 900 and i said tothe guy who did the deal that must have cost them 250 to change and he smiled! We quite like our 9060, personally i do see any advantage in having anything much bigger, itll run on the smell of diesel where the 9080 is thirsty and the 9090 is too big to be made use of, also on sh value who wants a 5 yr old 800hp chopper in england, no one, we just sold the 9060 after one yr, 550hrs cost us 27000 pounds, no knives, full warranty, never even washed the thing, i suspect if you do the sums thats cheaper per year than if you traded for a new 900 greeneye. The machine finished work for us at lunch time one day and was in wales chopping for the new owner the next morning the wanted it so bad so we are really pleased with that, its cheap chopping, despite being less than ideal machines the fx´s were always cheap to keep, alot of the reason we had them since to us its the biggest cost to business, a bad trade will mean you will never make money witht hat machine no matter how good or bad it is, whatever you buy you need to keep it in mind.
As for which machine is best, you can make a case for each of them, they all have good and bad bits, it comes down to so much stuff no one else but you can comment on, good luck with your decision!
Joined: May 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 135 Location: Northern Ireland
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #10 on Nov 7, 2009, 10:18am »
Matt, we need the "horse" to cover approx 1000/1200 acres of maize ground in a BIG hurry as there are PLENTY other agri contractors near to us that have a maize head for 200/400 acres and as you well know it doesn't take much for them to "steal" your acres!!!!
We will NOT be trading on a 7950i with Kemper 375,had it on demo on Thur and the boss parked it after two loads and jumped back in the 900!!!! Our relief chopper driver who knows how to "push the stick forward" jumped in the JD for a race,he took 8 rows of maize the same as the boss with the RU600 and the 900 simply walked away from the Deere. OK our 900 is chipped to 750hp but she is 5 years old and the Deere is "supposed" to be improved?!!!!! "The Cleet" said the Deere was a decent chopper but I quote "its not in the same league as a Claas"
The FR9090 has been discounted too as there have been too many ones here in NI with engine probs particularly the FR9080's with the CAT engine!!! So its looking like a choice between a 960 or push to a 970 as our main competitor seems to be going alright with his in our sticky maize fields.
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #11 on Nov 7, 2009, 2:26pm »
Hi All, I live in Cheshire, England, our contractor has had the 960, 7950 and BiG X 650 on demo during the course of this season. He was impressed with the Claas liking all the creature comforts and the cab but did not think that the claimed output hike was there with the performance being no better than his 900. The JD was 800ish Hp but was nowhere near 150hp better. Then he had the Krone and all he said was he felt sorry for the clamp man when she was running at full chat.
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 196 Location: upstate NY
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #12 on Nov 7, 2009, 8:38pm »
a 900 GE and a 960 will run side by side,demoed both just a couple weeks ago,both machines had a orbis 600,processors both set at 2mm,chopping 17 mm,both machines would run 5.5 to 6.5 mph
Hi All, I live in Cheshire, England, our contractor has had the 960, 7950 and BiG X 650 on demo during the course of this season. He was impressed with the Claas liking all the creature comforts and the cab but did not think that the claimed output hike was there with the performance being no better than his 900. The JD was 800ish Hp but was nowhere near 150hp better. Then he had the Krone and all he said was he felt sorry for the clamp man when she was running at full chat.
Did he go for the X650? What kind of machine was he trading? Say he keeps it for 5 years would he be concerned at all about the resale price and availability of parts since the Big X forager is a VERY rare sight in the UK? The Big M mowers can't be given away second hand!!!
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #14 on Nov 8, 2009, 4:20am »
Hi Rancherman, Claas actually claimed there was an improvement in performance due to the V-Max cylinder.
BigTruck, as yet he has not done a deal but the Krone is looking very favorable, over here Krone are the importer now so that should help the parts issue, as for back-up the local krone dealer is part owned by a lad who worked on the product for several years.
Hi Rancherman, Claas actually claimed there was an improvement in performance due to the V-Max cylinder.
BigTruck, as yet he has not done a deal but the Krone is looking very favorable, over here Krone are the importer now so that should help the parts issue, as for back-up the local krone dealer is part owned by a lad who worked on the product for several years.
OK, no probs, what does he think about resale on the Big X 650? Are there many about Cheshire?
Hi Rancherman, Claas actually claimed there was an improvement in performance due to the V-Max cylinder.
i know they did,but i did not see it in the field,maybe we could have opened the k.p on the 960 and gained some mph,but customer wasnt really interested in the 960 anyway,just curious about it. im not a big fan of the v-max cutterhead yet,we had one of the 980s crack and break the knives in half,very lucky the cutter head didnt explode.and the other 980 and 960 the guys sharpen the heck out them,but they just dont seem to keep a good edge like the old style knives.
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #17 on Nov 8, 2009, 1:46pm »
Hi BigTruck,
To be honest the resale is a difficult one due to the small no's of machines, and as yet no one has looked at trading in. I was talking to another contractor who runs a V12 and he said the main reason that he went for the Krone is the build strength, he is aiming at running his machine alot longer than his previous machines by three to four seasons so by then the resale wont be such an issue. There are around 8 machines around Cheshire and Shropshire. I believe West Mid Tractors have sold a new one for this season already.
To be honest the resale is a difficult one due to the small no's of machines, and as yet no one has looked at trading in. I was talking to another contractor who runs a V12 and he said the main reason that he went for the Krone is the build strength, he is aiming at running his machine alot longer than his previous machines by three to four seasons so by then the resale wont be such an issue. There are around 8 machines around Cheshire and Shropshire. I believe West Mid Tractors have sold a new one for this season already.
Foragerfan, what is the name of the Cheshire contractor as we may know him? Also is the "price to change" from the 900 to the X650 much more competitive than to the 960? Did he consider the X800 or a FR9090 at all?
(we will deal seperately on a QC400 direct disc head as our wholecrop acres have gone down these past few years were the maize acres have greatly increased)
Slightly off-topic compared to the rest of the discussion, i know!
But at the Kemper stand at agritechnica this year, i saw a video of a Claas chopper with (what looked like) a 10 row Kemper head, straightcutting wheat for forage! Up until then i wasnt aware that they could do that, and performance-wise i only had the video to go on but they looked like they were really hooking in, and the job it did looked alright!
Ive heard stories about the krone head being able to do the same thing, but i havent seen it for myself... Has anyone of you tried this or have any experience with it first hand?
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #20 on Nov 16, 2009, 8:16pm »
Yes it can be done
we use a small drum kemper to cut wheat, works ok, wouldnt want to thousands of acres like it particularly if you customer is looking for really short stubble, thats the limitation on speed, too fast and the stubble gets long and it doesnt cut nicely, regardless of how slow you go it wont make the job a mower head does and if the crop has grass in it then its slow, i would expect some where in the 4mph range i the conditions are similar to ours the uk . I guess the answer is if you need to cut wheat and the acreage doesnt justify a direct cut head its a good alternative but if you have lots to do the mower head will pay for itself in time saving and will do you a better job.
we use a small drum kemper to cut wheat, works ok, wouldnt want to thousands of acres like it particularly if you customer is looking for really short stubble, thats the limitation on speed, too fast and the stubble gets long and it doesnt cut nicely, regardless of how slow you go it wont make the job a mower head does and if the crop has grass in it then its slow, i would expect some where in the 4mph range i the conditions are similar to ours the uk . I guess the answer is if you need to cut wheat and the acreage doesnt justify a direct cut head its a good alternative but if you have lots to do the mower head will pay for itself in time saving and will do you a better job.
Also the mower heads are in some applications able to cut maize!!! There is a vid of a Claas 520 direct disc cutting maize on Youtube and we have a QC400 that regularly cuts maize in Paraquay SA!!!!
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #22 on Nov 17, 2009, 8:48am »
True, they will cut maize (i did sme with a quick cut yesterday) you need t keep the header full but even then it will throw lots f cobbs forwards and leave them on the ground, the emptier the header the more you leave behind, if its really poor maize you can pick up nothing, just cut it off and throw it on the ground, the X disc is just the same though, its not a quickcut gripe
Joined: May 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 135 Location: Northern Ireland
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #23 on Dec 19, 2009, 8:46pm »
Guys, its 2.30am in the morning here in NI!! After feeding the boss copious amounts of Bacardi+Coke and me drinking the same of Vodka+Coke.(its Xmas after all!! )
I coaxed it out of him at the annual Agri Contractors Christmas "Buckrakers Ball": We have traded to a 2010 Claas 970rwa with PU300/610 Disc and Orbis 750.
The JD7950i was discounted because our 2005 900 ate it alive in Maize silage,a FR9090 was binned because the Cat C18 has given serious trouble in other Irish FR9080's and we're not sure about an Iveco V8!! A Krone Big X800 was ruled out at the beginning as the ONLY two X650's that are in NI,one of them was hawked around Claas/JD/NH dealers and they weren't interested in a deal AT ALL!! They have had to trade on a 2010 X650,its the same on a used BigM mower,you can't give them away second hand here in the UK!!
BTW, for you Big Boys in the States Helmut Claas has told the "chosen few" that there will be a Jaguar 1400 announced shortly and yes it will have twin Mercedes 16 litre V8's pumping out 1400hp.
Joined: May 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 196 Location: upstate NY
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #26 on Dec 20, 2009, 8:56am »
[quote author=bigtruck board BTW, for you Big Boys in the States Helmut Claas has told the "chosen few" that there will be a Jaguar 1400 announced shortly and yes it will have twin Mercedes 16 litre V8's pumping out 1400hp.
Be afraid be very afraid!!! [/quote]
wow,hope they figure out more stuff than just stuffing more power through the same chassis.
Joined: May 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 135 Location: Northern Ireland
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #27 on Dec 20, 2009, 9:31am »
Quote:
wow,hope they figure out more stuff than just stuffing more power through the same chassis.
I am reliably told it will be a completely new "wide throat" machine with everything from the pick-up back,including the Corn Cracker and right out the spout beefed up considerably!!
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #28 on Dec 20, 2009, 4:33pm »
If they were to use one engine rather than two they would be able to avoid having to be emissions compliant, further evidence that the two engine thing is a just to try to make a selling point where there isnt one, if they would focus their effort on using one decent engine rather than two turds it would be better for everyone
Re: New chopper,need advice!! « Reply #29 on Dec 20, 2009, 4:33pm »
We are currently running one of these new choppers in new zealand. They are called a 496 series and are badged as a 990. It has a 300 pro pick up with a wider opening. The feed rollers are 1100mm wide and are a larger diameter than our 980. The drum is 1100mm wide and approximatly 1050mm in diameter. We are currently running on a 64 knife cylinder with 32 taken out. The knives are similar to a 494 only wider and supported by another bolt in the middle. The machine runs on two v8's and is producing a claimed 1350hp. We are currently using the machine to cut whole wheat with a vaio900 header and a 12inch 190 toothed processor. Theres talk of a bigger direct disc coming in the future but this was all claas could supply. We are also getting a prototype 14 row corn header which will hopefully arrive shortly.
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) it came to us new for the 2005 season and we normally change the chopper after five years.
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